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Don & Mike:
The organizations go into more than just tech, they really explain the procedures and the consequences of infractions against those procedures. You mentioned you appoved of Rusty as a good Race Director. Wouldn’t Rusty have an easier time if a mechanic went out on the track and starting working on their kart, The SKUSA and STARS rule book covers this infraction, and all Rusty would have to do is pull out the rule book. Having a clearly written rule book that has been improved over and over the last few years, is IMO the only way to get and keep good tech people. With your membership you get the same rule book that everyone else gets, therefore we don’t have the “I didn’t have a set of rules” debate. The CSC could attempt to write a similar set of rules, but it would either bring on a law suit for copyrights or be full of loopholes the organizations have already found.We will join both STARS and SKUSA because we enjoy the fun and competion of going out of town, so maybe I am biased because it won’t be anymore money out of my pocket.
Bill
Karterdad,
The Stars of Karting is not a national sanctioning body. It is a national tour that is sanctioned and insured by WKA and complies with WKA’s national standards. You are a WKA member if you are participating in a Stars tour events. Your WKA membership gives you the opportunity to participate on the club level, or in regional tours such as the new Southwestern Tour formed in Oklahoma and Texas or on the national level with the Stars of Karting tour. The WKA rulebook and tech manual are the same in Grand Junction and at the Oklahoma Motorsports Complex.George:
I say “stars” because I downloaded the “Stars of Karting 2005 Membership Application Form” off of the http://www.starsofkarting.com web site and mailed it to Stars of Karting in Terrace, WA. and made the check out to “Stars of Tomorrow”.
:idn:
BillIf you are not racing in or not having your track raced on does your voice count? I appreciated the words of widsom I can see your concerns but since its my backside at CSC that needs coverage can we discuus that! One rule book or two or rules posted on line or available at the local track are great. The number one point should be insurance coverage for the drivers and others in attendance. What tracks have insurance and what kind do they have? If I am paying a fee what is covered and what is not. Racing is serious and dangerous and fun lets look at those issues. Not who has a national race that only a few people go to in another state. This is act locally and the national events will take care of themselves . 😯
Craig,
Now that is interesting to see. What tracks have what insurance?
Let’s see who is forthcoming with that info. :idn:
Get those spikes on that kart and go to FortCollins for the ice races, freezerman is going I hear! :bs:
All of the 2004 CSC races were insured by NKA. As for the insurance at each track for test/tune and club race days, I don’t know.
I’ll say it again, stating that there is insurance does not mean anything to me. What/Who does the insurance cover? Does it cover my injuries or is it just a liability policy for the organizer/track? Does it cover my liability from an irate father suing me becasue juniors were put on the track with seniors? Does it cover a flying wheel? I’ve seen nothing in writing except ‘we have insurance’.
This infomation should be part of the information packet the CSC sends out along with the rule book.
Duff
Duff,
You’re asking exactly the right questions, IMHO. I asked the same ones a couple seasons ago and really didn’t get good answers. So I just pulled out the flyer for the WKA insurance program. Note that it says that it’s only a summary and to “please refer to the policy” for more info. I sure wish they’d put the full policy on their web site to make it easier. But here are some the key points from the summary:
There are two parts of the insurance: A “Master Event Liability Program” and a “Participant Accident Program.”
The Master Event Liability Program provides $1M of general liability coverage for each occurence at all WKA approved events. This seems basically to cover the track, covering for instance, “bodily injury and property damage protection in the event of lawsuits brought by participants.” It also includes spectator liability. However, it also says that it covers “Any participant, competition vehicle owner, and competition vehicle sponsor in conjunction with approved WKA events.” I take that to mean that if a wheel flies off your kart and hits a spectator, the insurance would cover a claim against you. But I’m no attorney! But would it cover you if a Junior parent is upset because the Junior was injured by you while racing in an event that included adults and minors? I have no clue, since that presumably is not in conformance with WKA class rules. (God knows what they’d think of running karts and motorcycles at the same time during practice sessions….) :bs:
The Participant Accident Program covers “insured persons participating in racing events held at sanctioned tracks” and includes practicing, tuning and testing, as well as racing. It provides $20K of coverage for accident medical expenses, with a $500 deductible; the deductible is waived if you have other “valid and collectible insurance.” (It also provides $5K accidental death and $2500 accidental dismemberment coverage. 🙁 ) When I actually spoke with someone from IKF a couple years ago, I thought they said that this coverage kicks in only after your own insurance pays, but I don’t see anything to that effect in the summary flyer (of course, that doesn’t mean it’s not hidden in the fine print of the actual policy to which we’re supposed to refer.)
Who is covered by the Participant Accident Program? “Driver participants and Non-Driver participants in a covered event which has been endorsed onto the policy and for which the appropriate premium has been paid and who has signed a valid waiver and release of indemnity.”
What’s covered?
1) treatment by a licensed physician/surgeon (but not dental treatment, so don’t chip your teeth!)
2) X-rays
3) Confinement in a hospital (hmm, I wonder if that covers ER charges if you don’t stay overnight?….)
4) Ambulance from the event
5) Up to $1k max for physiotherapy (aka physical therapy?)BTW, all this is from the 2004 WKA insurance flyer, and the carrier is American Specialty Insurance Services. My recollection is that the IKF summary was very similar (I think both use the same carrier).
Anyone know how SKUSA’s insurance compares, or that provided by CSC last year?
My own bottom line is still that if you’re going to race, you’d better make sure you have good medical coverage. WKA and related kinds of insurance would be good to cover anything your own medical coverage might not (for example, I’ve heard that personal insurance won’t always cover the full ambulance ride). But the main value seems to me to cover other kinds of liabilities that might arise during an event, for which racers might be the unwitting targets of litigation-happy lawyers. I suspect most of the tracks are covered by limited liability corporation protections, so without this kind of insurance, the rest of us may be a bit too tempting as targets for people who want to sue someone. FWIW.
Good Morning all,
I would like to clarify a few points being represented here. SKUSA used to be called Shifter Karts USA a few years back. They are, and have been called “SuperKarts USA” to cover both Tag and Shifters for two years now. (they same way Shifter Kart Illustrated changed to Super Kart Illustrated last year).
Working for SKUSA and TaGSKUSA is Martin Casey. Love him or hate him, he writes the rules for all the Tag classes on all the boards (TaG USA) and (TaG SKUSA).
As Doug Welch pointed out, SKUSA has rules in place and classes offererd for 70% of the CSC Classes.
SKUSA is offering this year the first, winner take all, Nations Cup or National Championship for their classes. For those that want to have that on their resume, it doesn’t cost nearly as much. The only classes that wouldn’t qualify would be kid karts, Junior 1, senior 4/ and Mini-max.
I am hoping that SKUSA “publishes” the ’05 rules soon, so we (the karters) can decide which way to go.
I do know that SKUSA is offering a stock moto class, and ICC and a mix of Moto and ICC, as well as Tag.I for one would like the meeting sooner, rather than later.
Thanks for your time,
JimHi,
I’m not a racer just a dad voicing an opinion. The safety of the drivers and a structured series with set rules is what this region needs. I’m all for supporting all of our local tracks they work so hard to keep the doors open. I agree with Stacey Cook, the track owners should work together and take a serious look at a structured series.
Thank You,
Harry & David ChapelCRE is concern of the safety of the drivers and having a structured series with set rules for this COLO. region.
Thank You,
Harry & David Chapel@Roger Bonham wrote:
I normally don’t post my opinon on this forum but, as a racer, I feel that I should have a “say so” on what may affect me in regards to karting in Colorado. I have raced in the CSC and SKUSA for about a year and a half and have had a ball. It appears to me that people are asking for something from a series other than a place to race and rule enforcement. I don’t quite understand why? :idn:
From what I have seen the only thing a racer really wants to do is race and for it to be fair. The CSC has offered me a place to race and I am grateful for that but the rulebook is nonexistent and enforcement has been as noticeable as the rulebook. From what I have read and experienced with SKUSA events, they are fun, fair and very well organized which gets me home at a decent hour from the races. Getting home as a decent hour is almost reason enough for me to stand behind SKUSA Mountain Region. As someone who enjoys racing I want the racing in Colorado, or anywhere for that matter, to be fair, fun and organized and I know Jim will make that happen for us here.Roger,
Sorry I had to find one of your past posts to send this message, but your MSN E-Mail address is not working for me. You must have changed it.What I wanted to say is, Happy Vetrans day, and thank you for your continued patronism of our Country. It’s vetrans like you that allow us our freedoms, and safety, to live our lives.
Just remember, if it was not for the Navy, you leathernecks would still be standing on a beach somewhere. :usa:
Thanks Brother, and Happy Vetrans Day. Beers tonight?
CurtWow, if you just start reading this post before looking at the date it was started, you think to yourself, my things have changed awful quickly!!!
Ditto what Curt said. And to all who have served our country. Thank You!
Rick
I’m going to have to go back and reread this post now Kistler? 😕
Eerie to re-read this post and see the discussion of insurance coverage on the last page–right down to a discussion of “flying wheels” and the post from Rich wondering about what insurance coverage includes. What have we learned this year from Rich’s tragedy in this regard? I never thought about it before, but does Gayle know about this possibility?
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