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Theres a good question. How many Shifter /Tag racers would be willing to join WKA/IKF instead of SKUSA?? Either way I’ll be there racing my LAWNMOWER ENGINE…………….
SKUSA is a shifter sanctioning body for the most part from what I understand. How does this benefit, affect, address the non-shifter classes?
… also, when is a schedule going to be finalized?
Clarification and facts (as I know them 😀 )
Tom, I consider myself a good pilot and (have and give) the respect needed to drive on a track full of non Tag karts (kids, bikes, etc) The problem is that PEOPLE don’t learn the rules of driving. It’s like owning a gun, if you don’t understand and respect it then you’ll be the one I read about in the paper. Putting up a hand when coming off or on the track, giving a rental a wide berth etc.
No one is saying Brad’s closing. That isn’t a fact. What is a fact is I am waiting the day someone gets hurt by some circumstance in a race (blown engine in front and the kart behind comes in contact, flips etc, etc.) and the injured thinks he has a lawsuit. Can anyone say “McDonald’s coffee in the lap and i’m entitled to 100+ milllion, and get it!” Brad is right it’s the American way and when they change Tort laws saying if you lose you pay the defendant’s costs this is a way of life in America.
Fact, we’re a new series and if we employ humans to do the job sometimes we are going to make mistakes. Just don’t make the same mistake over and over again. :bang Brad and other track owners say we’ll not have the P1 airbox issue again or we’ll have tech then I believe them. They are HUMAN and don’t want to make the same mistake again (right track owners 8) ) Give them a chance. Last time I looked none of them have their shirts monogramed with JC! (Okay, Bobby MIGHT pass for Jesus on a good day but that’s rare doncha think?)
Fact, learn from our mistakes and move forward. D-day wouldn’t have suceeded if the US and british army kept focused on how they got thier butts kicked in the Phillipines and Dunkirk respectively. (Check your history if you don’t know the stories :look
:cheers:
Let’s get it on!!!! When is the CSC meeting?
Mike makes a good point about liability.
Do any of the mentioned sanctioning bodies have liability insurance that covers ME, the racer?
Do any of the tracks have liability insurance that covers ME, the entrant?
Or do all of the tracks only have insurance to cover THEM, the track owner.
In my book, these are two totally different issues. It sure would be nice to know that if someone behind me hits me with a frivilous lawsuit, that there is some insurance to back me up. If I remember correctly, all the waivers that I signed at the tracks last year only covered me and the track owner. It said nothing about any other individuals or drivers.
If I have to pay for insurance, then I want it to cover ME. And that alone would be worth the additional sanctioning fees in my book.
Duff
@Jeff Jones wrote:
SKUSA is a shifter sanctioning body for the most part from what I understand. How does this benefit, affect, address the non-shifter classes?
SKUSA was originally intended to be a “shifter organization”.
I believe it was last year that SKUSA decided to adopt rules to allow TaG classes within their national program.
In another posting (I think by Jim Keesling) is was said that in CSC’s case SKUSA would allow the non-shifter/tag classes to run as “local option” classes under rules established by CSC and approved by SKUSA. This means that those folks would be allowed to participate in SKUSA/CSC events and (I believe) be covered under SKUSA’s event insurance. Those folks would still be required to pay the SKUSA membership fees.
That’s fine, but I see an important downside. While non-shifter/tag racers could continue to compete in CSC, there is effectively nowhere farther up the ladder for them to go and continue their non-shifter/tag karts. IOW, no SKUSA-sanctioned national events or tours would be available. This doesn’t affect a large number of racers, but those that do want to run nationals would be pretty much SOL unless they joined WKA or IKF in addition to SKUSA.
Freezeman you need to mellow out dude. My point wasn’t that you need to join SKUSA but that there was already a SKUSA program running so it would be an easy transition. Both WKA and IKF have both shifter and tag and as this year both follow TAGUSA/SKUSATAG rules for sprint racing so either one will work also. But why not support a couple orgs. if that works for you. The 100cc and 4 stroke people could join WKA/IKF and run by those rules and the shifter/tag guys could do SKUSA. Like I said before the cost of enrollment is less than a budget breaker so just do what feels right. The problem with both IKF/WKA are that they have way to many classes so on a race weekend track time gets cut to allow for that many classes. I’m sure that if SKUSA was the choice then the classes that are popular enough to be run at a Regional program could be included and teched under a different orgs. set of rules. Most of the time not all club classes are run at regional races because they don’t get enough participation so on a SKUSA program you can add in the popular classes and not have to many.
Well Karttuner , are you suggesting that SKUSA should use “other organizations” rule books for tech or any other reason ????
Hmmmm , If I recall there is a threat by SKUSA indicating there could be consequences if any one uses their rule book .
I wonder wether or not SKUSA could suffer consequences if they use the CSC scoring of points without authorization ?
Just having a little fun , but it is food for thought !
J.B.
J.B. let me try and clarify this, the promoters have the options of what classes get run at their events. Different groups can piggyback on reg. or club race, like Rotax Max can run with a club race to satisfy a regional requirement. They just score their own classes the way they need to and tech their own entries, they pay the promoter a percenatge for suppling the insurance. From reading the other thread “cre and ppir” it seems like their are issues with the WKA rep or trk owner in the area, And from reading the thread on the new SKUSA rep. he had respect and support so to me it seems like that may be a better choice. Now if a promoter uses SKUSA rules for most of the classes and gets the other classes he wants to run ok’ed he can use his own rules or rules he chooses for the remaining classes. Since the SKUSA president sells insurance also besides SKUSA I would think getting the proper coverage wouldn’t be a problem. So ifthe classes can be insured and the classes can be chosen to meet the needs of the karters and the promoter has garnered respect. Where are the major problems?
I don’t think Greg, or Freezeman or any of the non-shifter folks is saying that SKUSA in CO is a bad thing, just asking the obvious question: “what’s the benefit to the non-shifters?” Who wants to pay for something that doesn’t benefit them?
It seems like Jim Keeslings involvement with SKUSA is good for colorado karting. Jim is well thought of and an excellent organizer who has a passion for the sport and is bringing a fresh approach. But ultimately I think the 4 cycle racers see little intersection between them and SKUSA.
But I do have an imagination. I can see the Colorado region of SKUSA writting the rules for a new Limited/Open OHV-F250 TAG class.
You know it is pretty hard to have rule infringment problems with open classes or new developing classes. What is that other term some use for them kind of classes? o ya, Outlaw classes.
As an adult racer of briggs stuff, I don’t have much of a plan to go to any out of state events or nationals. If I did I would just have to choose which sanctioning races I wanted to do and join there org. and make my equipment comply to there rules. I think CSC’s choice in racing orgs. and rules has more of an effect on what a Jr kart racer is going to race.
OK Tuner. I am Mellow Yellow nowwwwwww….
But I thought it was SKUSA that had way too many classes? 😛JB,
In talking to Joe Janowski, he works with the other organizations and gets permission to use their rules if there is a class in a region that is not in the SKUSA rule book.
I agree with Joe on this matter. If I spent the time and money to write a full rule book, it would piss me off if another organization uses it without compensating my company. All I hear is ” we are running SKUSA rules at this event ” but the event is not sanctioned by SKUSA.
This is a direct quote from Joe: ” We cover all but two CSC classes in our rule book. I will call the IKF or WKA and get permission to adopt their rules for the other two. “
Everyone keeps asking what SKUSA will offer if we join. Well, like I have said in prior posts, a chance to run at our Region and chase a National Championship. This is not saying that you will have to run against AJ Noud, Alan Rudolph, Ron White etc. etc. This is more of a regional racers national championship. Something a little extra to shoot for.
The guys ( our team included ) that raced STARS last year will still chase that series again this year. The biggest complaint of drivers is this sport is so expensive. Non factory drivers without full support now have a place to race.
This will also give national media coverage for up and coming drivers to spotlight their progress. Another way to get sponsors.
I think the idea is fantastic. Let’s here what drivers havce to say.
Richard Buxman
Nothing against SKUSA but I feel WKA would serve the Colorado karting community much better.
My reasons are:
A weekly racing program that a racer just running at one track can be part of
East and West Manufactures Cup and Gold Cup (4/) programs that covers just about all the classes run in this area. No need to be a factory program to race a National type program.
Stars program for the guys that want to run on a very high level.All can be had for a $55 membership
Just my opinion,
MW
What is the saying?. $75 here, $25 there, $15 dollar increase now, track fees, races fees, etc and soon you are talking some real money. 😯
Pertaining to my son and I, I have no illusions of him becoming the next Schumacker or Gordon, and in addition at this time we have no plans on racing anything bigger than CSC events, a.k.a. we are having the time of our life with lots of fun because this has been a great family hobby. My perception which may be slightly fogged by the way things are done within Colorado has been that SKUSA, WKA, and IKF organization are for those few who take this sport a little more seriously. I will trust those for now with experience and history regarding these organizations and their benefits, but whatever else I hope that those folks with agendas remember the little guys and what it is like for them? don?t take the fun out or make this sport too costly. (Along those lines, I am all for Rusty as Race Director for CSC. He has been fair, honest, and considerate and always took the time to make Conner and his competitors feel like real racers in both Baby karts and Junior 1s.)
I look back at the last two years with CSC and the ONLY major problem/issue that I perceived was the tech, lack of tech or tech inconsistencies. I know others had issues with the rules, or lack of a ?Rule Book,? but I knew and figured out what the rules were. My point being is do we need SKUSA for a rule book and does the adoption of SKUSA really solve any of our tech issues? Can CSC alone solve the tech issues with a slight increase of money from the racers?? At times baby steps are best?.since SKUSA is already coming here thanks to Jim?s hard work; should we wait another year for this decision and see how CSC handles this coming race year??
My two cents :cheers:
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