- This topic has 13 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 21 years, 1 month ago by
.
- Posts
Mike and other 125 shifters:
What if the classes were as follows.
S1-both moto and ICC(SKUSA rules to the letter)
S2-both moto and ICC(SKUSA rules to the letter)
S3-stock moto (clear set of rules to follow)
G1-moto and ICCGet rid of the PRO and NOVICE names.
Both moto and ICC have clearly defined rules in th SKUSA rule book. Might have to adjust the weights for the 2 classes to run together, but rules are there for us. Same spec tire for all four classes. I think last years Pro class top 5 finishers probably had 10 years combined driving 125 shifters.This would create bigger fields, less races, and a championship that means more.
Mike what do you think?
To be honest I am not sure. I’ll ramble for a moment and reveal some of my thoughts.
The Pro class in 2004 was pretty stinkin? large at times. Adding another 10 makes it a wad at Steamboat and Action Karting. I believe there were 20-22 Pro drivers at IMI. Is 30-32 too big? I don’t know. I always considered Pro level racing just that. Let the drivers that are committed for several years battle. The Semi-Pro rank was for guys like me. Limit track availability, better than beginner, but off of Pro level on budget and track time. It also makes a great step for the transition racer, the 2nd stop on a 3 rung ladder. I don’t argue that a person could run a year at entry-level shifter and go to the pro level and run “ok”. That based on having good support and top-notch equipment. The Semi-Pro level has always made sense in several types of racing. Semi-Pro racers can buy the year old pro stuff at a reduced cost. If I have to run with the Pro guys I need to add $4000 dollars to my budget right away. I am not sure that’s possible right now. I won’t race if my equipment can’t win! I like the knowing it is the driver beating me, not his kart or engine. There are multitudes of people that won’t compete if they can’t compete up front. If you go to the track, knowing you can’t win, your interest leaves quickly. Smaller development classes give more people chances to podium. That will maintain interest and entry numbers. I for one like the challenge of against the odds competition, but many don’t. I have considered running the Pro class “just to see how I’d do”, I’ve always had a confident ego and believe I can compete in anything, 8) but the $$ hold me back.
I think the package you mentioned would be great in 2006. Let everyone be aware of where the group (CSC) wants to head. People will have time to make plans to run whatever class they want. I started making my plans at Steamboat. Changing rules with two months before the first race is a little tough for some. I am a little undecided on the S3 class taking off. It seems like people would enter in the stock class, modify their moto for their second year then go to pro. That 3-year plan is pretty affordable. The S3 might take off for the people that want to convert from TAGS.
Those are my thought for what they are worth. Like I said I am not sure what is best. I just know what the group I raced with wants. I’m not the best author so I hope that makes SOME sense. 😀
Mike
I didn’t mention that I agree on some of the points. Larger classes and a more meaningful championship for sure. The big field would be awesome at Grand Junction and IMI!!!
Mike
Mike:
I understand. My concern is with the ICC in anything other than a top class. You won’t find any rules to limit the ICC to a “Semi Pro” or “Novice” class. Nothing is in place to stop “Pro” type motors from entering these classes. That is why SKUSA put the ICC in a class all to its own. Not as an indication of the caliber of the drivers, the motors are purpose built karting race motors. A stock rule book for an ICC would be as big or bigger than the TAGUSA rule book, with differing weights and all. Here in CO we are gong to run them together, just need to figure out how without watering down the classes too much.
In my opinion the words “PRO” and “NOVICE” are a hinderence. People think they are not good enough for “PRO”, and others think it is degrading to be called “NOVICE”. Some of the “NOVICE” entries last year were identical to the “PRO” entries in terms of equipment.
I think the Stars series is goiig to run 42 in there features. That would be fun to watch at Bandi 😯Karterdad, I agree we don’t need the novice or pro name to identifie a class when there is no differances in the equipment needed to compete in it. I am a Briggs racer with a shifter kart that needs to be driven. It has a moto motor that I am shure wouldn’t comply as a stock CR125 so S3 is out of the picture. Then to choose any other shifter class I am having to compete against ICC’s. That chioce doesn’t sound good either. That leaves me with three avenues to go down. Leave it parked, buy a stock moto, or buy an ICC. I have been a die hard karter for years, and will decide on a class to race in, yet we shure do make it hard for anyone to decide to run in this sport. As a new shifter pilot I only see three classes pro/ pro heavy and stock. Yet no class for a mod moto, which I thought made shifter racing what it is to date.
Bill, your class structure makes way too much sense! Simple, clear rules, a reasonable weight break for the motos, I can’t find a single reason not to adopt it.
I’m giving serious thought to puting together a stock moto package for Greg. I think we can get an honest 38hp out of one that will just last all year long and with a well set up kart, we could give many of the S1 karts a good run.
I’m giving serious thought to puting together a stock moto package for Greg. I think we can get an honest 38hp out of one that will just last all year long and with a well set up kart, we could give many of the S1 karts a good run.
38 is way too much hp for a stock moto, if you are getting 38, then you are no way legal, I personally have seen ported motos with ignition boxes, pipes, and the works with 38-39.
Marc
You have no idea what you are talking about. Its very simple. All you do is screw it together correctly(crank true), do a good job of fitting the power valve plugs( this is key) and make sure the timing is set (another key) and get the head volumn right. If you just bolt together a stocker, you get 34 to 35 hp. Spend a little time, use the right combination of pipe and silencer (you have a choice), you get 38. Go nuts with the porting and squish, you can get high 40s. Just because some guy did all that stuff and didn’t get that kind of power only means they didn’t know how to do it right, not that it can’t be done.
But don’t acuse some one of cheating before you know any facts. Or are you already trying to make your excuses when Greg starts bumping your rear bumper? Just kidding Marc! 😀
isn’t everything you just said the opposite of the idea of a stock moto class, truing cranks, messing with it is not exactly the idea. And have you ever run a STOCK moto, if not, then how would you know.
The idea of the class is to take it and put it on, not to rebuild the thing and do whatever you can to make it faster. I have driven my Bosses stock moto, and I can tell you, that it does not have 38hp, and he is not even running the stock class, and has a v force reed cage in it, and a pipe combination. Yet the thing is only about 35hp when jetted perfectly. I would imagine something completly stock would be far less. But hey what do i know.Marc
A stock moto comes in a kit. The parts are NOT assembled by Honda. Some one has to put it together. It can be done by a kid on a dirty gargage floor or by a Paul Leary in a clean room environment. Which one do you think will deliver more power?
The crank has to checked before it can be installed, it’s part of the assembly process. If you had a Honda repair manual, you would see it tell you how to do it. The power valves have to be plugged, its part of the assembly process. You can just shove them in, or you can grind them carefully in another cylinder (remember you can have no grinding marks in your stock cylinder), then install them in your stock cylinder. Both methods are legal, just one works much better. You can attach the stator in just any old postion or you can put it on the dyno and set the timing to a particular spec. Which do you think generates more power?
What you and many others are confusing all this with is stock moto with novice. Same mistake of Tag and novice. Thats a bunch of crap. What your saying is that the good driver has to spend a silly amount of money or he can’t race. We are tired of spending stupid amounts of money just to go a few ticks faster. For what, a plastic trophy? Do you really think Penske is going to give us a ride in an Atlantic car if we win a bunch of go kart races? Are you saying Greg has to race Pro or he can’t race? I can’t afford to put him in a $6,000 Swedetech Pavesi and feed the darn thing and new bottom end every other time out. Been there, done that.
NO. All classes should be open to any racer who builds a kart for that class unless its a designated novice class. Stock moto is a class that just makes sense for a lot of racers like us who a sick and tired of spending stupid amounts of money on engines to go only a .5 second faster. I can build a brand new stock moto engine to legal specs that will deliver 38hp for around $3,000 and the silly thing will flat run all year long with little or no maintenance. The Pro class should be worried about the stock class, a good driver in a stock package will give you fits on a techical track and spend a fraction of the money doing it.
We may put a ring in it half way through the season just to say we did something to it but it won’t really need it. And it should run within a 5. to 1 second of the best karts on most of the tracks around here. (very close at Action Karting and CRE, not so close at IMI) We can have fun with it all year and spend a fraction of what your average ICC guy will spend trying to stay in front of us.
Yes Marc, I have raced moto before, I have built motos, I have run them. I was building them and running them before you got your first kart. Sp please, dont accuse me of cheating, and don’t tell me I dont know what I’m talking about.
So Doug, if they try to tear down your 38 HP “STOCK” moto are you going to let them or are you just going to take the DQ like with your ROTAX?
KR
No problem, it wouldn’t cost squat to put it back together. The $50 protest fee would easily cover all my costs.
They could have taken the Rotax apart if they would have paid for the seal to be put back in place. I made that offer. But $50 wouldn’t have covered the shipping, let alone the $250 bill for the inspection. Had I let them tear it apart, we wouldn’t have been able to race the next two times out. Its that simple. We went to a SEALED motor class so that we didn’t have to put up with STUPID protests like that. Besides, the guy who made the protest has since come up and appolgized to us for making the protest in the first place. We’ve forgotten it, its a shame that there are some who just can’t let it go.
What you and others seem to fail to understand, its all about the money. I don’t have much. I have less in both my karts than you have in one of your engines. I traded parts for my Rotax engines. I use seconds that I can’t sell for the parts in our karts. My tow truck is 15 years old and has 195,000 miles on it. My daily driver is 16 years old and has 174,000 miles on it. My wife’s car is 11 years old and has 136,000 miles on it. If I sold all my cars, the total wouldn’t buy one of your karts.
Doug. I agree 100% with you on the money issue. We hung in there as long as we could on our very limited budget. It was a lot of fun but extremely frustrating at the same time. Like always knowing that your equipment was second class or not being able to do enough testing for fear of breaking parts that might keep you out of a race. It would have been nice to be able to continue, but we simply couldn’t afford to do so.
Karting is a great sport, but in my opinion, it needs a complete overhaul. 🙄
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.