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First of all let’s set the record straight:
I don’t know if Seth had his sealed engine torn down in post race tech but what I do know is Zach Gillis’s engine was for his P3 finish in TaG Senior. Here’s a kid who PAYS FOR HIS RACING OUT OF HIS OWN POCKET (that’s right, Mom and Dad don’t sponsor him) and you have basically screwed this kid. Did his engine or Seth’s pass tech? Ubetcha! When Zach came back from tech with his engine in pieces I blew a gasket and politely asked Rusty why that was. He told me they shouldn’t tech a sealed rotax engine.
Didn’t we learn a damned thing from last year? Or are we going to ignore history and repeat the same mistakes again?
Last year everyone thought the Welch’s were cheating when they wouldn’t allow their engines to be torn down. I side with Doug, if you want to protest then pay me the money to have a rotax dealer recertify it. That was clearly the outcome from that fiasco.
Okay, so the politics of karting meant that Brad didn’t become the Authorized Rotax service center nor did Barry at Billet. But if memory serves me correctly Trent and Stacey’s shops are Authorized Rotax service centers. Didn’t anyone THINK to ASK them if they could come over and oversee what post race tech was doing? Then they could reseal the engines if the drivers put them back together in front of them (hey novel idea, bring along a torque wrench and it would be done in 10 minutes tops. The drivers/winners then have a sealed engine so they can race a RMAX challenge race IF THEY WANT. Read that again, a resealed engine gives that driver the option to race a RMAX race IF THEY WANT. Dane, Duff, Rich Vito et, al…
Todd Bellew, shame on you. If you really feel the way of your post then I for one want to have no part of your party. You look into the eyes of a promising talent like a Zach Gillis and tell him you screwed him and then I’ll think you’re a man otherwise you are a coward, period…. Again let me emphasize that you just made a High school kid spend extra money so that he can race a SKUSA sanctioned event and because of your arrogance and the arrogance of SKUSA (which you represent) you eliminated his chance to race at a RMAX event! This kid is a newbie, I THOUGHT we in the karting community were to promote the sport and promote competition and sportsmanship. If you’re post is accurate what you are saying is screw everyone else’s sandbox, ours is best. That attitude worked on the promoto tour, didn’t it? But I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you screwed up and were trying to promote SKUSA and that you’ve had time to realize what you wrote in your post was just something said in the heat of the moment, right? Then I’ll take back my comment of being a coward and saying something in the heat of the moment.
Now again to summarize the situation so that maybe we can learn from history and not repeat the same mistake my solution would be to kindly ASK either of the Rotax service center representatives to oversee tech so that these engines can be resealed. This can be a viable solution couldn’t it?
I for one LIKE the sealed engine concept but if you really feel the need to check them for cheating (someone desperate enough to cheat for a plastic trophy is a pathetic loser anyway) then pay the money to reseal them out of CSC/SKUSA funds if the engines pass tech.
Stock Honda shifter class is looking better and better.
I’d like to see an answer to this before Steamboat please. And I’d also like to know what we’re going to do for Zach Gillis, he deserves better. And so does Seth Chapa if his engine’s seal was broken also.
Hey streets watch the personal attacks.
If my memory is correct Ben didn’t have new tires for the tag race, has the same kart he ran and bent last year, has the same motor as last year. So it probably cost them $35 for entry fee and a few gallons of gas to race on Sunday. As for throwing money at a shifter. He found a sponsor for his tires, they play it safe with the one motor they have so that class cost them $65 plus some fuel. Looks like it only cost them about $120 for Sunday to run 2 classes.
I don’t know who you are, but I do know Mark, Liz and Ben. Wish they were more of them on race days.
Bill Ray
@Tom Dennin wrote:
Has a sealed Rotax ever been found to be illegal with regards to what is behind the seal???
Yes, some sealed Rotaxs have been declared illegal. These engines were found in the junior classes (why am I not surprised) and they were for squish non-compliance. It seems some were trying to run squish on the very low limit and carbon buildup on the piston took them under. The seal was not broken to find this non-compliance. To my knowledge, no Rotax with a seal has ever been found to be non-complinate for items under the seal.
For big deal events, like RMax grands and Black Rock this summer, all the top engines were torn completly down, all were good, and they always had a dealer around who would reassemble and re-seal for minimal charge.
A question I have, were non-invasive techniques employed before the seal was broken? Was squish, head volumn, stroke and a bore scope used to check all the PERFORMANCE enhancing items done before the seal was broken?
Hello all, wish I was able to be there for the TAG race, I got back to Colorado Sunday midnight before going off to Germany for good this weekend.
Two interesting points perhaps –
First – It is common to seal a motor more than once so if the organisers want to check a competitors engine they can put their own seal on it as well as the rotax one, then all points scored with that motor are “at risk” until the tech is done, and if at the end of the season the motor is not OK any races won with it are zero points. Easy and no extra cost to the competitor.
Secondly – a rotax sealer in Europe has just lost his licence because of modifying crankpins to alter the rotax timing, so some independence from the rotax sealers is probably a good idea.
Sorry to hear about the messing….!After the first IMI race our leapard was protested by Mr. George. Even though we never came close to Seth’s times he still did this. Dennis took the motor back to his shop for inspection. We picked up the motor on Thursday, air freighted it to Woltjer (where the motor was purchased) Friday, received the motor on Thursday, put in on the kart Friday and headed to Grand Junction. Our motor was found to be in compliance, Dennis said he checked 72 different measurements. He even took the pipe apart. Mr George was not happy with this procedure and wanted to have our motor sent to Italian Motors to have it remeasured (Mr. George is a IM dealer) All this with our next race in 1 week. Mr. George offered to pay the $148 it cost us over the protest fee of $150.
This past week we were informed that Mr George would again be protesting our motor. Sunday morning we had Dennis check the cylinder again. It was within specs I put it back together put on the kart. In my rush I missed somithing and cost Kyle a second place finish.
So as for Mr. George having to pay to get his motor resealed thats fine by me. Maybe people just got tired of the B.S. he was putting the officials and our race team through. We didn’t protest Seth, he has been driving longer than Kyle. His dad owns a kart shop. The rotax is the motor to have at IMI. With those 3 things, he should have swept both IMI races. If the rules don’t change we will have a rotax for IMI next year.
As for Zach being cought up in this BS. Give me a call 303-598-2838 and I will give you $50 towards getting your motor resealed. This sports needs more kids that just want to race.
I need to go to work as there is less stress there.
👿Bill
@karterdad wrote:
As for Zach being cought up in this BS. …..will give you $50 towards getting your motor resealed. This sports needs more kids that just want to race.
I’ll help too Zach.
My 2-cents:
I run the rotax so I can race in CSC and R-max because all I want to do is race.
If by any chance I got a podium finish and tech or challenge was offered to tear into my motor I would say no and be DQ. I am not going to spend $300-$500 to have it resealed.
A sealed motor is sealed and that carries enough credibility period.
Oh controversy, I love it.
From this thread we don’t even know if it was torn down, except for Zach’s (I agree with Mike).
@blink wrote:
So what should we do about it?
Very good question. I have been looking over qualifying times of the past two CSC races.
Seth slowed from the first 53.168 to 53.346
Kyle improved a bit, 53.908 to 53.815
Greg ran 53.637 in JuneBut the other runners using basically the same packages can’t get near what these three are doing.
Ben (Leopard)did 55.065 in June and 54.916 last weekend.
Zach (Rotax)was 54.5 and 55.211
Ron Reed (Rotax) was 56.109 and 55.669
Dane ran 54.137 in JuneAt best, the majority of the field is .5 or more back from these three.
If we adjust weight, who will really benifit and who will be hurt. The other Rotax runners are already well off the pace compared to the two quick ones, Seth and Greg. Since neither Greg or Seth show up for IMI club races, only those Rotax guys who do will be hurt and they are already not competitive. Is that fair to them? Kyle, who does do a few IMI club races will just beat the other kids by more than he currently does. How long before they quit or look for other options?
Greg has almost 10 years of running IMI under his butt. You would hope that he has learned just a little bit during that time. When he shows up with a new S3 package this fall and starts cranking low-mid 52 laps, are we going to hear all this crap start again?
Ok, let me get this straight.
Zach qualified almost 2 seconds off of pole, and finished 3rd in the main.
And his seal was broken in tech.
Rusty, fix this, because this is complete :bs:
The CSC should pay for the re-sealing but if they aren’t gonna stand up for what is right, then I’ll help Zach out with the costs too.
Duff
Maybe when you get that good it is time to move on up and out of the Tag class.
Move the three burners up. :idn:
I will say it again. TAG needs to go to a Touring car mentality. The fast guys get weight and the slow guys lose weight. If you want to sand bag in qualifying then that will be your penalty. Why can’t this be done? Adding 10lbs or losing 10lbs is easy all you need is 2 bolts and 4 nuts :loony:
We had know idea that Zack was torn down.. He is a great kid that works really hard and makes it all work on a very very small budget.. Zack if you will send your motor GJMS I will re-seal it for free and get it right back to you.. Any motor that we seal we would be happy to help Dennis and re-seal them after he is done.. I still think if a motor has a seal on it that should mean it is legal.. As a Rotax service center it would be crazy and very imbarrassing to have one of our motors found illegal and it would just be flat out wrong!!! Don’t we all do this for FUN? a little plastic trophy is not worth it…
Why can’t we all just get along?!
Bill Ray’s point is well taken. Rushing only leads to mistakes and that is wrong since Kyle’s the one who paid the price.
So going too fast means your cheating? Wow that’s a real motivating factor to go out in 90 plus degree weather by yourself to test to get faster. And yes years of experience doesn’t factor into this either eh???
Like I said, Stock Honda’s looking better and better…
Zach, don’t let all of this get you down. People really are good and I think you can see this through the resulting posts.
Donal has a great idea of what they do in Europe. Might we give that a try?
Bill, you’re right time to get back to work – it’s less stressful!
We all can do better, can’t we?
8)
Hey Zak. Great race on Sunday. If you need any $$ for shipping etc. we’ll gladly help toward that. It ‘s a real shame how the word “FUN” is being taken out of the racing world by some people. Be proud of your win !! Liz Schermerhorn
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