Reply To: Stock Moto Rules

Home Forums General Discussion Stock Moto Rules Reply To: Stock Moto Rules

#52927
Doug Welch
Participant

History lessons are for those who are fairly recent to the sport. There is an old adage, “Those who don’t understand history are doomed to repeat past mistakes.” or something like that. I try to point out the past so that we don’t continue to make the same mistakes over and over again.

Moto died when we let the rules get out of control, costs escalated and racers dropped out or moved to other forms of motorsports. ICC’s have followed the same rocky road. It now costs $6,000 for a blessed motor, they don’t last very long and people are dropping out. Sales of built ICCs have dropped to almost nothing. I talked with one of the major importers of ICC engines in Florida and he told me he had only sold 3 engines so far this year. I’ve sold over 4 dozen CR-125 motor mounts so far this year and I’m not the big seller of mounts in the country. They are all going on stockers. I think that small fact should be of interest to track owners, rules makers and promotors of our sport. It is screaming at you, telling you where the market is heading.

On the dyno, the 2001 has a bit more hp. The overall number varies from dyno to dyno but the difference is around a pony, maybe a bit less. In the grand scheme of things, thats no much. But its far more important as to where the power is and the hp curve. The 2001 has better over rev and a flatter top hp. The 1999 has more bottom end and mid range. The 1999 should be stronger on tracks that require better acceleration where the 2001 should do better on more open tracks where over rev and a flat curve of peak hp will be an advantage. So as the class grows and becomes more competitive, some racers will use a 1999 top and ignition for acceleration tracks and 2001 on open fast tracks.

As we have found in dynoing Tag engines, total hp is not nearly the whole story. The power curve is what’s important. If you look at the original work SKUSA did with Tag, they dynoed every engine and set weights based on dyno runs. As we found, there isn’t a single set of “magic” weights that works well at every track. Every engine develops the power differently, even if they all develop the same TOTAL power. And it gives one an advantage over the other.

Spec Honda is no different. While the over all power is not significantly different, the power curve is signficantly different. One will and does have the advantage over the other in certain circumstances. This very fact will hurt the class. The entire point is why go down this road unless we have a compelling reason to go!

The primary reasons for this class are as follows.

1. Level playing field
2. Lower costs
3. Easy and controllable tech

Adding the 2001 cylinder does not level the playing field. In fact, it does just the opposite.

It does not lower costs for its more expensive to put a 2001 together. It also opens up the possible need for multiple top end/ignition combinations depending on track conditions. Potentially more expensive.

For a varity of reasons, the 2001 is harder to tech. Certain dimensions, particularly port height, are far more open and variable than on the 1999. Since the ignition is so critical to the power curve, opening up the ignition to multiple years that are not compatable across the years means you lose control of one of the most important aspects of the engines. As I stated earlier, limiting it to just the 1999, we have easy and fair ways to control the CDI boxes.

You want loopholes, here they are. You can’t tech a 2001 for port height alteration. Since they are as cast, they vary. A sharp builder could alter the height and you can’t tech for it. The 1999 is machined and doesn’t vary more than .003″ Alter it, you can be easily nailed.

Just using a cc head volumn is not enough. I can open up the ring gap so that more oil flows out through the ring gap while you are filling the head with oil giving a false reading. Plus, many tech guys don’t even know how to use a burrette.

With out profile tools, you can not detect an altered head. No such tools exist for the 2001 nor is there any interest in developing them.

Ignitions are almost impossible to tech yet they have tremendous inpact on power production. Things like stators, coils and CDI do not interchange across years. The best and easiest way to control ingnitions is to perform grid swaps of CDIs. If you have multiple years and multiple combinations, you take this very powerful tool away from the tech guys. You might as well just open up ignitions. But then for those who don’t know history, we already been down that road and it didn’t work.

I given you the facts on power, explained the reasons for the differences, showed several loopholes and given what I think are factual reasons, based on both past experiences and logic as to why we don’t what to open it up to multiple years.